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Signs and Wonders

August 7, 2007

Heavenly Gems

It seems to me that, at least as far as the North American Church goes, signs and wonders run something like this: God sends a sign and the church wonders about it.

We have people in the church who can see a Christian receive prayer for healing from other Christians who are praying in the name of Jesus Christ and swear that the resulting healing is demonic. You have to wonder about that.

So it is not surprising to me that when God does something really off the chart that there are segments of the church that lose their collective mind over it. The gold dust and gem stones that are manifesting in meetings really tilts their mechanism. In their paradigm, there is no way that God would do such a thing.

But then again, in their paradigm God doesn’t do much of anything.

There is a segment of the church that basically believes that once you are saved, that’s about all God will do for you. They pray, but they really don’t expect God to intervene much. To me, they are almost deist in the way they view God. Once He saves you, He pretty much leaves you to work out your salvation and He’ll catch you on the other side.

Salvation to me is the greatest miracle God will ever perform. It is astounding to me how He takes a rebellious, God-hating sin-filled human and transforms them into a child of the King. Not only that, but makes them heirs with Christ.

After that, why would anything surprise you?

The gems above manifested in meetings. I pulled the photo off of Patricia King’s site (giving credit where it is due.) I have seen this happen. I have a rough stone that the Lord gave me in one of her meetings. If you want to read about that you can here.

What is the purpose of these things? Why would God lob gems and gold into meetings?

In the Western world, we have very much lost our awe of God. He’s basically up there somewhere, but He doesn’t really bother us and doesn’t really interact with us. And for the most part, we like it that way. We are like the children of Israel when God scared them at Mt. Sinai. The didn’t want God getting to close to them. They said, “Moses, you go deal with Him. We’ll stay down here.”

When you hear the Lord say, “Look down. I have something for you,” and you find one of these stones, your reaction is one of awe. You feel like a little kid. “Gee, Daddy, is that for ME?” And scripture stops being, “For God so loved the world,” and becomes, “Jesus loves me.” It makes the gospel personal again.

It may be as simple as the Father wants to come and play with His kids. We try to make the church so cold and impersonal sometimes. In our “reverence” for God, we forget that He calls us His sons and daughters. There is something so incredibly personal in the Father’s relationship with us. We tend to lose sight of that fact in the Church.

I love Joshua Mills’ response to a guy who came up to him in a meeting and said he had problems with the feathers that were falling. Joshua said, “Well, if you have problems with the feathers, what are you going to do with the whole angel?”

If you go to these type meetings, say “Hi” to me. You’ll know me. I’ll be the one crawling around on the floor looking for diamonds when the meeting is over. Why? Because it’s FUN, that’s why. I like playing hide and seek with my Father.

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17 Comments leave one →
  1. Madeline permalink
    October 7, 2007 9:48 pm

    Please pray for us, the body of believers here
    to experience what you are experiencing. We are
    hungry for His manifested Glory. I’m also
    looking for the gemstones that He is
    giving me.

  2. October 18, 2007 3:21 pm

    I have just returned from a PK Glory School in AZ a couple weeks ago. You have such a way of explaining all that I have been feeling about those around me. I have had such frustration, seeing people get gemstones, seeing the glory dust and witnessing miracles and then sharing about it to people that look at me like i’m crazy!

    Glory to God to find your blog! Such a blessing and support for me!

  3. Richard permalink
    December 8, 2007 3:11 am

    It’s really a blessing that so much dialouge has begun in favor of and in defense of the prophetic movement. It is getting really hard to take all of the bashing that goes back and forth. I agree with you 100% that there is a cross-section of the body that believes that “any” manifestation at all is not of God and ride the doctrinal freighttrain for all it’s worth, but what is more disturbing to me is how much time and energy is spent by believers trying to “convince” them otherwise. Newsflash:….IT CAN’T BE DONE! We’re not arguing with people but with a religious spirit. It’s sole purpose is to divide. It will not suddenly develop a conscience, be convicted and change its mind no matter how much scripture or testimony you throw at it. It’s not possible. But I understand people’s frustration. When I was first saved I heard many testimonies and read a lot of material about miracles and manifestation and witnessed God’s presence in my life through the speaking of toungues and the favor in my life and the lives of my friends and the so-called “coincidences”, but never actually witnessed a supernatural manifestation of something that wasn’t there one minute and then was there the next. Honestly, it kept me in a state of anger for nearly 3 years because I continually wrestled with the idea that either there was “something wrong with me” or “God didn’t love me” because it was happening to others and not me (I can look back and see that my heart was selfish because I needed God to “prove” himself to me). The blessing was that it kept me very hungry and I pressed in as often as I could (the Bible teaches us to “draw near unto him and he will draw near unto you” and, trust me, I was determined) so when it did finally happen it was off the charts. I was at a conference where Joshua Mills was speaking and when he walked in he was as clean as if he had just come from the Dry Cleaners and by the time he got up to preach he was covered in gold dust. He laid hands and prayed for all of us and when he ministered to me it messed me up so bad I could barely speak or walk! He annointed us with oil that was also supernaturally manifested and the fragrance was so strong and sweet that I could smell it for a week (to this day I cannot describe the smell only to say that it was delicious). It was like being in heaven (5 full nights after that meeting i was up until 5 am on my knees praising and worshiping Jesus. I was wrecked for a week! I could smell, taste and feel God’s presence every where I went. I was wiping tears out of my eyes constantly as my heart was open and vulnerable. If that’s the fruit of the devil then he really missed the mark on that one). Jesus said “be ye as little children”. That is an extremely difficult scripture to realize in an increasingly competetive and violent world. We feel that we have to grow up too fast and be supersmart and overly protective in order to compete and survive, and yet that is, I believe, the scripture that unlocks the mysteries of the Kingdom for all of us. When we stop looking at God as God and start looking at Him as Dad and when we stop trying to compete with Him and trust Him enough to allow ourselves to let go and and see ourselves as His children that’s when we’ll truly “get it”. No longer will be threatened by signs and wonders but we’ll be as excited and as expectant as little kids on Christmas morning. And as we grow in the revelation that God is first and foremost a Father, and every good father want’s to spoil his kids, then EVERY morning can be like Christmas morning. What a wonder! Blessings to all.

  4. rahabsplace permalink*
    December 8, 2007 9:11 am

    Thanks for sharing your story, Richard. I am so excited to find people who are experiencing what God is offering in this hour rather than rejecting it. Discernment isn’t about seeing the works of the devil all over, but rather seeing the hand of God at work in our lives and seeing His ministering spirits at work on our behalf.

  5. December 9, 2007 1:46 am

    Our church has been receiving gold dust for quite some time and we’ve been craving the gemstones for about a week. We just got them tonight and MAN! Aren’t they amazing?! We were maining receiving just 1-2 carat amythest but we got some blues, yellows, and one clear one just tonight. It’s so amazing, we were all crawling on the floor of the church and my pastor’s house… praise jesus for his blessings! I really love the way you explain it, feeling like the daughter. My pastor explained it as God dressing up his bride in beautiful jewlery. 🙂 We haven’t received any diamonds yet, but my boyfriend and I are praying reeeally hard for one so we can use it as a wedding ring. It’s just all so amazing!

  6. BWA permalink
    January 1, 2008 12:58 pm

    There is no doubt that these signs are of the Lord as it would take some pretty convoluted logic to prove that the enemy is behind it all. Someday I hope to be in a meeting to see stuff like this.
    My deeper longing though is to see the greatest sign and wonder and that is that the church here in North America begins to walk in the agape of God. We really do not know how to love one another and to love our enemies is not even in our grasp.
    The responses on this website tell me that on both sides of the argument we are in danger of missing the whole point (read 1Cor13). The world will not be convinced that we are followers of Christ by our doctrine nor by gold dust, feathers, oil, or gemstones in our meetings. All this is in vain if we do not love one another. I have been in renewal meetings where everybody is doing carpet time and are soaking in God’s presence, but these same people show almost no sense of community and agape love for other Christians.
    Social scientists have evidence that loneliness and isolation is increasing in our society and they are quite concerned. The world is looking for genuine love where will they find it? Speaking from my own experience the thing that will sustain me is not having gold dust or a gemstone but the knowledge that I am loved and accepted by a loving community of fellow believers.
    I am not saying get rid of the miraculous , I am saying let us build community to provide a framework and a context for the miraculous. Something tells me that the next big move of God will have something to do with the agape of God and community.
    Wishing a happy new year to all
    BWA

  7. Sam permalink
    May 21, 2008 11:07 pm

    You said:

    But then again, in their paradigm God doesn’t do much of anything.

    It’s a shame that to justify these signs you have to resort to using such broad brush strokes. I know many, many brothers and sisters who believe 100% in the physical (as well as spiritual) healing of God, and still reject that these signs are from God. My wife was healed of a terrible intestinal issue by the power of Mighty God, so His power is a reality in our lives.

    The problem I have with these signs is rather that they look similar to cheap tricks that I’ve seen guys in long sleeves on a downtown city street perform. My God is the Creator of the universe, He spoke and something came out of nothing. Why is it, then, that I think to myself, “is that all you’ve got” when I see this spiritual bling? It’s pretty shabby, really. I mean, I know you don’t want to admit it, but it’s just so tacky! God is sooooo much better than this garbage. Do you think that a die-hard atheist is going to say “Oh wow that must mean that God exists and loves me” if she had someone show her one of these things? I know the answer to that question because my church has had these “manifestations” a few times recently, too. When someone told a good friend of mine who is an atheist the story behind an emerald a woman at church received, he smirked and said “you guys should go back to crack light, the heavy stuff is screwing with your brain”. That to me sums it up. Unfortunately the church has been so deluded by cheap tricks (and I believe other things more powerful than that a la 2Thess2:9) because they are craving the glory of God.

    Brothers and sisters, listen to me. If you want to see the glory of God, fix your eyes on Jesus, “For He is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His being, sustaining all things by His powerful word” (Heb 1:3). Don’t go chasing this junk, crave Jesus instead of gems and gold (that’s for all of you, but particularly Sarah).

    Acts 17:29 says “Since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone”.

    I’m pretty sure this won’t get past the moderator, but if it does, God bless you all. Please don’t take what I say as offense – rather check your heart against the Holy Spirit and the Word and look to see what I’m saying is true.

  8. rahabsplace permalink*
    May 22, 2008 9:21 am

    I grew up in traditional Baptist and Methodist circles, and in those God does not do a great deal to directly intervene in people’s lives.

    Signs are just that – signs. They point the way to a greater truth. When God gives a young woman struggling with being accepted a beautiful gem, that is a sign for her and her alone pointing her to the greater truth of God’s amazing love for her and the beauty He sees in her. It is not meant to be a sign to anyone else, and they can take it or leave it as they choose. But that tangible gift gives her something that can never be taken away from her.

    The reality is that healing, gems, gold or whatever only manifest in places where Jesus is being lifted up. All the leaders that I know and know about are so enthralled with the manifest presence that they could care less about the stuff.

    In the Lakeland meetings right now, worship is the central thing. They will worship the Lord for HOURS. Frequently Todd gets ignored on stage because the Lord is doing something in the audience or people just flat refuse to stop worshiping.

    Most of us who are a part of this movement are hungry for Jesus and his presence. We want to see the stuff happen that happened in the Gospels, but that only happens when He is in our midst.

  9. Sam permalink
    May 22, 2008 6:26 pm

    Hi again,

    thanks for your reply. I understand where you’re coming from, the personal nature of the signs. Praise God if these things bring you closer to Him.

    Looking at the responses to your article, however, I pick up a few things that don’t sit right with me, which I believe to be common with many of my friends who are caught up with these sorts of signs.

    1) There seems to be a sense of hierarchy in the blessings. A bit of gold dust is pretty cool, but a five carat ruby is way better (see Madeline, Meredeth and Sarah’s responses). And then, of course, some of colours have different meanings and values. I’m sure you can see the problem with this, but I’ll point it out anyway. There are many of God’s children who have not received these things, even though they want to. What does this say about their worth and value? Also, it encourages fleshy worship, as we have to “press in further” to a “higher dimension of glory”, both of which are unbiblical. We ALREADY have Jesus Christ in us, who is the “light of the knowledge of God’s glory” (2 Cor 4:6) and His work is complete. There are no ‘levels’ in Our Father’s glory.

    2) I’m sure this will ruffle a few feathers (not angels – people), but I feel like I should say it anyway. When Jesus said to Thomas that “blessed are those who have not seen and yet come to believe” in John 20, he was (lovingly) rebuking his friend and follower. He allowed Thomas to touch him, to test him out to see if the risen Christ was real. There is no shame in being a baby Christian; everyone starts there. But there is a shame if we don’t move on to maturity. If these signs are to give faith to a believer, meeting their needs, it suggests to me that they have not yet come to maturity. Check out the book of James, Colossians, Romans 8 etc. about maturity. It is faith-based, trusting “in what we do not see” (Heb 11:1-2). If you need it, fine – but move on to maturity. There’s a difference between “child-like” and childish.

    3) There seems to be an addictive nature to these signs, which (often very subtly) draws away the focus from Christ to achieving “the next level in the glory” This is the result of a combination of 1) and 2). This is not good.

    I appreciate both your openness in posting my response which is in opposition to your own, and your honest reply. Keep your eyes on Jesus. Just be aware that Jesus himself warned that there is a possibility that any one of us could be led astray – even those he has chosen, if that were possible (Matt 24:24). To deny that this could be you is to reject a teaching of the Lord Jesus. This is why I’m writing to you – check your heart, and check it again.

    Peace.

  10. rahabsplace permalink*
    May 22, 2008 9:08 pm

    Sam, I appreciate your concerns and I will admit that there is some truth in them. I have seen people who are so focused on the stuff, they forget Who is giving it to them and why. There can be a tendency in some to focus on the signs. They did it Jesus as well.

    I walked for many years in a place where I did not feel the presence of the Lord or see His activity in a spiritual sense. I walked by faith and not by sight. It was not fun.

    So now I enjoy the gold dust and the presence of angels and whatever else is going on, but it is born out of an appreciation for the manifest presence of the Lord. I have fun with my Father, but it is my FATHER that I want, not the stuff he plays with me with.

  11. Sam permalink
    May 22, 2008 10:49 pm

    Good stuff, I understand what you mean. It sounds like you’re coming at it with the right heart (although a different angle from myself).

    What I’d really love to see, though, is some of these ministers who operate in these signs and wonders to really preach the Gospel, rather than just talking about this miracle, that prophesy, this glory cloud, my mantle, the anointing and so on. I sat under a very prominent minister who visited my church for 2 nights recently and didn’t hear anything about the Gospel, it was all encouragement on how to get more of the signs. I was very disappointed, and I believe very strongly that the Father’s heart was grieved. I feel like the same is happening in Florida. The people may be hungry to worship God, but I have watched large chunks of this thing, and haven’t heard the Gospel preached once. My church, unfortunately, is moving the same way (less Word, more personal experience).

    Call me old-fashioned (I’m 22), but I want to take the same approach as Paul, and “know nothing but Jesus Christ and Him crucified”. I’d encourage every believer to do the same – if these signs help you to know Him, so be it, but if they even slightly distract you from the King, throw them out.

    Just as an ending thought about angels: Why do we assume that angels have feathers like a bird, when there are no biblical accounts of angels with wings? They are spiritual beings and appeared as either crazy looking four-faced things with wheels and eyes, or as men wearing white, as in the gospel accounts. Not one mention of wings (or female angels, such as Todd’s infamous “Emma”). We should take heed of Paul’s advice to “not go beyond what is written” (1Cor4:6), and “not let anyone who delights in… the worship of angels disqualify you from the prize” (Col2:18). Further, why are these guys aloud to speak about their third heaven experiences with angels and so on when Paul said about his own third heaven encounter, that “man is not permitted to speak about such things”? (2Cor12:4).

    We need to be careful here – we’re dealing with stuff that requires discernment, so I thought I’d just write a few questions to get you thinking about them.

    Bless you!

  12. Sam permalink
    May 22, 2008 10:55 pm

    sorry – just clarifying, I meant no mention of “feathers” not “wings”.

  13. October 15, 2008 9:49 pm

    The Holy Ghost gives me no peace about this.
    If God wanted to send gemstones He would also
    send the real stuff not this fake stuff that
    looks lıke you can buy at ebay.
    While we can believe God can do anything
    we still have to listen to our hearts
    and go with the Holy Ghost. He is telling
    me this stuff is not of Him.

  14. rahabsplace permalink*
    October 16, 2008 1:04 am

    Well, Cindy, I have to disagree with you. The gem I received came from the Father. I and several others watched it grow in my hand. It was a token from the Father of something intensely personal He told me.

    Of course there are people faking manifestations. There are people faking their salvation. There are people saying the Holy Spirit is telling them things that He never said.

    The question is what’s the fruit?

    For me, I broke through a barrier in my life that God could never love me. I have a token from Him to refute that.

    Oh, I just heard Bill Johnson tell of one of the folks in his church (Bethel in Redding, CA – ibethel.org) who had one of their gems they found valued. They were offered $10,000 on the spot for it.

    God gives good gifts to His kids. Psalm 115 says He does what He pleases.

    If you think these things aren’t from God, that’s okay. Don’t pick them up. Me? I love when my Father plays with me and gives me things. I’ll take whatever He wants to give me.

    If He gives me one worth $10,000, I’ll buy a car with it. I need one.

  15. November 26, 2008 9:20 am

    Hello, I found this forum while searching for answers to the “signs and wonders” debate. I honestly don’t know what to believe.

    I started seeking the Lord very heavily about a year and a half ago, and I strongly believe that he lead me to many of the headlining ministries that are experiencing these manifestations. Since then my faith, and personal spiritual growth has soared through the roof. My world has become much more Christ centered, and my focus has become much more self-less. I guess that I’m saying that it has brought forth good fruit in my life. I haven’t found any gems or gold teeth or anything like that, and to be quite honest, they were never really my focus any way. I just kind of figured that I shouldn’t put a limit on what God can/will do – and didn’t give it much thought.

    Until all of a sudden, some of my spiritual “advisor’s” – if you will, completely disaffiliated with these ministries, threw out all of their materials, and decided that since Gold teeth, Gems, Gold dust etc. are not specifically in the bible, then they believe that it is a lying spirit. This came out of nowhere, and since I’ve only seen good come from it – in all aspects, I don’t know what to think. The only reason I’m even getting so caught up in their choices is because I hold their spiritual opinions in very high regards. In fact, I usually immediately recognize every thing that they speak as truth, and accept it. But this time, I have no witness in my spirit, and I know that one of us is being deceived – and I worry that it could be me.

    I looked in the bible and found scriptures that back up both points of view. I prayed about it, and do not sense the spirit telling me that this is wrong…but these people who I hold in very high regards spiritually are saying that the Lord is telling them things that are directly contradicting what I believe he is telling me.

    I think I’m doing the right thing in seeking council, and since you all seem to have an understanding of this – maybe someone can tell me something that I don’t already know.

    Thanks

    -Donna

    • rahabsplace permalink*
      December 12, 2008 7:58 pm

      Donna,
      It is always a good thing to be cautious when you come into disagreement with those who have mentored you, but they are just as human as you are and just liable to have missed it. The way to judge all experiences is three-fold.

      The first is does the Bible specifically forbid the experience or practice. John tells us that he only recorded a selection of the activities of Jesus because He did so much that all of the books in the entire world would be insufficient to record them all. That means Jesus did a lot of stuff not in scripture. If you look at the ministry of Jesus, he did many things that could not be verified in the Old Testament, the only Scripture then in existence. As the blind man said to the Pharisees, Isn’t it amazing? You can’t decide whether or not Jesus is from God, when it has never happened before that a born blind sees. People being healed when the shadow of a man (Peter) fell on them. Where’s that in the Old Testament? So the standard can’t be if it’s not in the book it’s not God. God has clearly said that eye has not seen and ear has not heard what He has in store. If the Bible doesn’t forbid it, then it shouldn’t be automatically discounted.

      The second standard is the fruit of it in your life. If you are more in love with Jesus, pursuing Him more and living a life that is more in conformity to his, then that constitutes good fruit. Ultimately, it’s all about Him. If it draws you to HIM, it’s good. If it draws you into the experience, it’s not good.

      The third thing is the witness of the Spirit to you. Scripture says that those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. Ultimately, you are responsible to obey what the Holy Spirit is saying to you. If you miss it, it’s okay, because as long as you are pursuing the Lord, he has promised to guide you and not forsake you. Don’t fear deception. God is the only thing you are to fear. Trust that your Father will protect you and guide you, and if you make a mistake as you chase after him, he’ll rescue you. The more you follow the guidance of the Spirit, the better you will be at understanding his leading.

  16. Darla permalink
    April 14, 2009 10:40 am

    Does anyone post here anymore?
    I was wondering where a good chat room for signs and wonders would be, a positive one. Thanks for your help.

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