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Great Florida Outpouring – Lying Signs and Wonders

June 16, 2008
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There has been a great deal of garbage posted all over the internet about the lying signs and wonders going on in the Florida Outpouring in Lakeland, Florida. Todd Bentley has been blasted by numerous bloggers for channeling demonic power and that is how these seemingly miraculous things are happening. According to these bloggers, satan has all kinds of power, especially in false miracles and healing.

Does he? Does the Bible say that he does?

Actually, the Bible does not. Healing is an activity that the Lord has reserved for Himself. There is not a single scripture anywhere showing that satan has the power to heal a human (Revelation 13 talks about the healing of the beast, but the beast represents an economic system – when was the last time you saw a seven-headed human?) Likewise with raising people from the dead. Satan does not have life within himself, so he cannot bestow life on anyone else.

I did some Google research on healing by witchdoctors and shamans. I can find where they successfully use herbal medicines to bring about healing. I can find where they chase off evil spirits by their magic. I cannot find where they perform the kind of miraculous healings that I have seen in the meetings I lead and have seen in Lakeland. Research it for yourself. It’s not there.

Exodus gives the account of Moses’ interaction with the court magicians of Pharaoh who were able to duplicate some of the miracles that Moses performed. They were able to transform their staff into a snake, but Aaron’s staff ate theirs. However, they were unable to heal the plagues that the Lord poured out on the Egyptians. Exodus 9:10-11 states, “So they took soot from a furnace and stood before Pharaoh. Moses tossed it into the air, and festering boils broke out on men and animals. The magicians could not stand before Moses because of the boils that were on them and on all the Egyptians.”

The powerful court magicians were unable to heal even themselves, let alone Pharaoh or the other Egyptians.

Exodus 15:26 gives a partial revelation into the nature and character of God with these words, “I am the LORD, who heals you.”

One of the powerful covenant promises that God made to the children of Israel was that, if they fully obeyed the Lord, “I will take away sickness from among you, and none will miscarry or be barren in your land” (Exodus 23:25-26).

Naaman was unable to find healing in Aram for his leprosy and went to the prophet of God, Elisha, who told him to dip 7 times in the Jordan and be cleansed. When he had done so, he said, “Now I know that there is no God in all the world except in Israel” (2 Kings 5:15).

Forgiveness of sins and healing are linked all throughout scripture. Ps 103:2-4 carries this theme further

2 Praise the LORD, O my soul,
and forget not all his benefits-

3 who forgives all your sins
and heals all your diseases,

4 who redeems your life from the pit
and crowns you with love and compassion,

The life of Jesus fully bears this out. He linked the preaching of the Kingdom, the forgiveness of sins and healing. In John 5:14 he tells the man whom he had healed at the pool, “See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you.”

In John 9, the man born blind that Jesus healed told the Pharisees, “The man answered, “Now that is remarkable! You don’t know where he comes from, yet he opened my eyes. We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly man who does his will. Nobody has ever heard of opening the eyes of a man born blind. If this man were not from God, he could do nothing.” (John 9:30-33) The Pharisees could not refute this argument, instead they threw him out.

The Jews were familiar with all kinds of lying wonders, but this man said, “Nobody has ever heard of opening the eyes of a man born blind.” This was not a miracle that the charlatans could duplicate.

Jesus told the woman begging Him to heal her daughter that it would not be right for Him to give the children’s bread (healing) to dogs. Her response of faith so moved Him that He healed her daughter.

Jesus said that the Father would not give you a stone if you ask for bread. In the context, He was speaking of the Holy Spirit, but the concept applies to healing as well. The Lord is not going to give you a demonic deception if you come to Him asking for healing.

The Pharisees accused Jesus of casting out demons by the power of Beelzebub. Nowhere did they accuse Him of healing by the power of the evil one, because they knew that only God can heal.

In Matthew 10, Jesus “called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out evil[a] spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.” He told them to, “preach this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven is near.’ Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,[b]drive out demons.” These were marks of the kingdom that cannot be duplicated by the enemy.

Jesus gave these things as authenticating His message and His Messiahship in Matthew 11:2-6:

2When John heard in prison what Christ was doing, he sent his disciples 3to ask him, “Are you the one who was to come, or should we expect someone else?”

4Jesus replied, “Go back and report to John what you hear and see: 5The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy[b]are cured, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is preached to the poor. 6Blessed is the man who does not fall away on account of me.”

The things that pointed to His identity are things that the devil CANNOT duplicate.

Satan can do things like turning water into wine, levitation and all kinds of flashy signs and wonders. He cannot create. He cannot heal. He cannot bring life. The enemy comes to steal, to kill and to destroy. Jesus came that you might have life and that more abundantly.

Jesus sent all of His followers out with the same mandate that He had:

11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. 12I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. 14You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it. (John 14:11-14)

There is a great deal of lying wonders going on regarding the Lakeland Outpouring. The lie is that satan has the power to heal and raise the dead. This lie has been fed to the church and the wonder is that she has accepted it in the light of scriptures.

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50 Comments leave one →
  1. Tinka Tweed permalink
    June 16, 2008 2:51 pm

    The people who support Todd Bentley seem to use
    a lot of their time and energy defending him. It is
    in his followers best interest to make sure
    that it isn’t Todd Bentley that they are serving.

  2. rahabsplace permalink*
    June 16, 2008 3:01 pm

    You truly haven’t been reading around the blogosphere if you think the defenders of Lakeland are going the posting. There’s one very bitter opponent of the Outpouring who has posted over 160 posts on just Todd Bentley alone.

    I am defending the position that the power of God is supposed to be evident in the church. If it isn’t, there is something wrong with our practice of the commission Jesus left us.

  3. June 16, 2008 6:11 pm

    You need to go to Haiti and see how voodoo witch doctors create zombies and raise them from the dead. Exodus 7 shows us that satan can imitate some of what God does. Why do you think Jesus warned us along with Paul about lying signs and wonders to decieve if possible the elect. Mathew 24:24, 2 Thess 2:9, 1 Timothy 4:1-6, 2 Peter 2:1-4, 2 Timothy 3:1-8.
    Todd Bentley’s testimonies, experiences, teachings do not line up with the Word of God. When asked in New Jersey by some ministers about his tattoos which by the way he somewhere around 2005 he said God told him to get them. He said that God breaks his own rules. Does that line up with scripture?
    The devil does heal people falsely thru many false religions. Go to Africa I have been there various times and witch doctors perform healings. So does a Japanese religion called Rheika among others. It is reported that people have recived healing at rock concerts. God said we are to follow His Word not signs and wonders. Hebrews 5:14, Psalm 138:2, 119:105 and many tohers I can quote.
    .

  4. rahabsplace permalink*
    June 16, 2008 10:42 pm

    Please prove it. I can find no evidence of a true resurrection from the dead through demonic means. Zombies are not resurrections. They are a demonic counterfeit and not true life.

    Please send me a link with a proven healing from a witchdoctor, shaman or other type of healer of an instantaneous nature, where they laid hands on the individual or performed whatever incantation and the person was instantaneously healed.

  5. June 17, 2008 3:37 am

    Al… If you think zombies are “raised from the dead” that shows you don’t know much. Actually calling it “voodoo” shows how little you know about it.

    As for the tattoos, since Jesus has one, perhaps the “rules” that you are considering aren’t what you think they are…

  6. peterjb permalink
    June 17, 2008 4:50 am

    Hi, I think its pretty clear these healings are of God, however I am still weary of Todd – in all honesty I don’t know enough about him to come to any conclusions I am just observing. Just to reflect on what you have said healing in the name of Christ does not necessarily mean you have a relationship with Christ:

    Matt 7:21-23 ““Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’”

    Your thoughts?

  7. June 17, 2008 6:17 am

    Todd Bentley has yet to prove one of these resurrections. As a matter of fact two of them have been misproven.
    This is the story of the 3 year old they claimed was raised form the dead after two days and the hospital denies it. Why do you think the Bible calls them lying signs and great wonders to deceive if possible the elect. It is obvious he is succeeding.Mathew 24:24, 2 Thess 2:9, 1 Timuthy 4:1-2, 2Peter 2:1-4, 2 Timothy3:1-9,2 Timtohy 4:1-5
    I will follow the Word of God Psalm 119:105 than the visions, angelic visitation etc. of someone who has been proven in various boards to be decieved by demonic spirits as well as lie. Have you bothered to listen to the things that Todd Bentley, Patricia King or Bob Jones teach? They are doctrines of devils, new age stuff. Bob Jones, Todd Bently claims they can go to heaven anytime and visit. That is not biblical.You can wacth the video and hear it for yourself.http://youthministries.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/targeting-the-children/

    Recently Todd read a prophecy where Wendy Alec said Jesus was going to appera personally on the Lakeland Outpouinr stage for one on one minisrty. Never came to pass. If Todd was such a man of God why did he not judge that prophecy and denounce it? I will tell you why his free TV time would go out the window and that wouyld be the end of this pseudo revival

    http://charismania.wordpress.com/2008/05/28/todd-bentley-and-the-lakeland-revival-was-a-little-girl-really-raised-from-the-dead/#comment-573

  8. June 17, 2008 6:19 am

    As for the zombie story. Discovery Channel did an special on it. You can contact them and see how you can get a copy.It is a false resurrection done by demonic powers.

  9. rahabsplace permalink*
    June 17, 2008 11:10 am

    That is my point. It is a false resurrection. Zombies are not resurrections. Show me true healing or true resurrection by demonic powers.

    Wendy Alec did not say that Jesus was going to physically appear at the Outpouring. I heard the prophecy. That is your interpretation of it. Jesus is present wherever there are 2 or more gathered in his name. There are times, however, where the sense of his presence is more than at other times.

    Obviously, you have read few of the posts on this board. I worked for Patricia King’s ministry last summer. I am very, very familiar with not only her teachings, but her lifestyle.

    As for visiting heaven, I am already there. We are seated with Christ in heavenly places and we are admonished to come boldly before the throne of grace in time of need. Why do you say this is not biblical when it is plainly stated in Scripture?

  10. notbammedyet permalink
    June 17, 2008 12:17 pm

    You say “show me proof of zombie resurrection”?

    Show us proof of the Florida show resurrections and healings. There are numerous questions on the authenticity. I want to believe. Show me.

    I am not anti-lakeland. I am a charismatic Christian who has been through this many times over the past 15 years. I have yet to get a response to my request for documented evidence of even one dead man raised from the dead as claimed. I am open to believing the same evidence that Jesus clearly provided to anything he did.

    I have felt convicted to share the truth in this matter, having been involved with many of the “revival” antics over the past 15 years. Countless people who I know who attended also are today empty and not healed. To make matters worse, the so-called “enlightened” ones spew guilt on those who do not believe this show, blaming it on our lack of faith.

    After posting to numerous blogs which spew this nonsense (in a kind, scriptual manner), my comments are immediately removed and I am blocked from commenting. How is that for allowing discussion of something they say is of God? Yet any dissent is immediately removed to keep their believers in the dark. Can you say cult?

    God save us.

  11. June 17, 2008 3:15 pm

    Obviuosly you have bought into all of this hook, line and sinker so there is really no sense in trying to say anything more about it to you. I have tried to show you what the Word says,the errors these people foster but you have chosen to believe their experiences above the Word. That is what the Holy Spirit said thru Paul was the reason people would be deceived. They don’t love the truth( the Word) John 17:17, 2 Thess 2:1-9, 2 Timothy 4:1-4, Psalm 138:2.

  12. June 17, 2008 3:22 pm

    Oh one more thing. I heard Todd read the prophecy and she did say Jesus was going to appear on stage. Todd was smart enought to try to smooht it out by saying she was talking prophetically but that is not what she said. I believe there are plenty of witnesses around that heard what I heard.Here is an excerpt:
    ‘I am coming in person to Lakeland. I am coming in the clouds, surrounded by chariots and a host of angels. I will set foot on stage in a divine personal one on one visitation to the revival.’Can’t dispute truth.

  13. rahabsplace permalink*
    June 17, 2008 3:55 pm

    I have posted proof of some of the resurrections on this site. Look for the post entitled This is One of the Resurrections. I am asking you to prove that satan is doing what I have shown from the word of God he cannot do.

    I watched the night Wendy Alec spoke of. I saw the Lord on the platform. Why didn’t you?

    What makes me sad about many who are posting against this resurrection is the fact that they do not love the word. Otherwise, they would be obeying the Lord’s command to heal the sick, raise the dead and cleanse the leper. They would be walking in the fact that Jesus said anyone who believed in him would be doing greater works than those he did while he was on the earth. If they loved the word as they say they do, they would be showing forth their obedience through the works that they do.

  14. June 17, 2008 4:19 pm

    How can you make assumptions that we are not doing the works of Jesus? Do you know us personally? I have preached the Gospel of Jesus Christ in 27 countries some of them I have been to 10 or more times. I have been in the ministry for 27 years. Pioneered a church and pastored for 14 years. Two of the men we raised up by the grace of God are pastoring their own churches and producing fruit for the Kingdom of God.Many have been many saved, filled with the Holy Ghost and healed in our meetings and are still serving God today in various countries some in ministry. How can you make statements like that about people you don’t know? Or we are doing is pointing out thru scriptures and thru Todd’s own words and experiences so you and others can see the error that Todd, Bob Jones, Patricia King, Joshua Mills and others that are supporting this pseudo revival.
    By the way. When you study the Bible Jesus did not go around raising all the dead. Neither did he teach that to His disciples. In Acts chapter 9 when Peter was called to raise Tabitha from the dead it says he first knelt down and prayed. Than he turned to the body and said rise. Why did he do that? He was looking for direction from the Lord as to whether he was going to enable him to raise her up.Even Jesus said he could only do what the Father showed him to do. John 5:19-20,30. He was led by the Lord. It is error to ask for people to send prayer request internationally for Todd to pray for the dead.The other day he said he had over 300 prayer request for the dead. He just left a bunch of families confused and disolluisoned becuase their love ones were not raised up. I concur with notbammedyet Todd has provided no proof of someone being raised and the 3 year old the hospital denied it. I gave you the link earlier.

  15. rahabsplace permalink*
    June 17, 2008 5:11 pm

    I can make those statements about you the same way you can make them about Todd Bentley. Prove people have been healed in your meetings.

  16. June 17, 2008 5:42 pm

    Amazing response. I tried.

  17. shawnwilson permalink
    June 18, 2008 6:54 am

    WOW….it seems to me that people like to bash other ministries just because they don’t agree with some of the teachings. Todd is the real deal. His fundamentals are solid. Some people believe in healings others don’t, some people in Christian circles think speaking in tongues is of the devil. Arguing is getting people no where.
    Can the devil save, heal, make people want to serve Christ? NO!!! A tree is judged by it’s fruit….good fruit=good tree. Bad fruit=bad tree.
    Dear Rahab, don’t waste your time arguing with people about these things……it’s like the Assemblies of God arguing with the Southern Baptist Convention about speaking in tongues or once saved always saved. You have a great blog and I enjoy reading it.

    Much love,
    Shawn

  18. rahabsplace permalink*
    June 18, 2008 9:01 am

    Thanks, Shawn. It never ceases to amaze me how people manifest when you try to hold them to the same standards they are trying to hold Todd Bentley to.

    For the record, there are things about Todd that I disagree with, but I see where he gets his belief from in scriptures. Since they are non-essentials, I have no problem agreeing to disagree. I love the passion Todd brings into the picture.

  19. Markw permalink
    June 19, 2008 6:28 am

    It is amazing how angry people are getting about the Lakeland revival – just as angry as the Pharisees got about Jesus – in fact they got so angry that their thoughts turned to murder and with little regret it ultimately led them to say ‘Let His blood be on us, and on our children.’

    They could never imagine the God that they served would ever send a man like this and they were so convinced that they chose to accept blame for his death – that is quite bit of anger!! The same anger that was unleashed against our Jesus as he was whipped to an inch of his life with a demonic frenzy.

    He was so wrong – he did not fit their theology – he was so human – he was so flawed (or so they thought) How could the wonderful majestic God that they studied in their scriptures ever use a carpenter!! – someone from Nazareth – this is SO NOT God – this man is such a deceiver – we must protect our faith from this deceiver!! Surely his miracles and the healings must be from the devil – surely it is the devil who casts out the devil. And as far as those who were raised from the dead – well we are sure that they were not even dead!

    No this man is a deceiver alright – he isn’t one of us and he preaches against US – and we are the defenders of our precious faith!! Did you hear that even eats with unwashed hands!! Yes and he actually healed someone on the Sabbath – this man is deserving of death!!

    I am a Pastor who so longs to love the Lord and do his will – I have been to Lakeland and yes Todd Bentley is a controversial figure and sometimes he even says silly things but the God that I serve chooses the weak and the imperfect to shame the strong.

    I took one of my young men who has a disabled son – with me to the Lakeland revival and no his son has not been healed but this young man has fallen in love with Jesus all over again, and he so wants more and more of Him in his life – he has been in a dreadful place for many years now.

    I am so thankful to the Lord.

    I am reminded of the prophetic advice that was spoken by Gamiliel in Acts 5:34-39 “Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.”

    As far as a demonic delusion is concerned – it facinates me how much power the ‘defenders!!’ attribute to the devil and how little they attribute to the Lord – only a 3rd of the angels fell – that means there is 2/3rds left in heaven to watch over us – the devil knew this when he quoted Luke 4:10 – or should I say misquoted!! “HE WILL GIVE HIS ANGELS CHARGE CONCERNING YOU TO GUARD YOU,” – yes there are angels and no we certainly don’t worship them – in fact they long to have what we have – we, the Bible says, are Sons of the most High God!

    Jesus said ‘I have given you power over all the power of the enemy’

    It is interesting to me that Jesus never spoke against those who were trying to serve the Lord with power – but the disciples didn’t have such grace – John came to Jesus with a complaint in Mark 9:38 “Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we tried to hinder him because he was not following us.” But Jesus said, “Do not hinder him, for there is no one who shall perform a miracle in My name, and be able soon afterward to speak evil of Me. “

  20. rahabsplace permalink*
    June 19, 2008 10:02 am

    Hi, Mark, glad you commented.

    I understand about not being healed. One of the guys in my church has a enormous surgical hernia (you can see pictures on Xtreme Encounters BeenUp2.com page) which doctors have been unable to correct following six surgeries. We have been contending for healing for him for nearly six years.

    Bill Johnson calls it living with a mystery. He had the same thing when his dad died of a disease that Bill regularly sees healed in his ministry. So we live unoffended at God in the midst of a mystery.

    I, for one, am not willing to lose the things that I do see happening in my life and ministry because of the things I do not see happening.

    Blessings on you and your church!

  21. John permalink
    June 20, 2008 11:36 am

    Wanted to believe in the revival, until I heard
    Todd say he was told by God to basically put Jesus
    on the back burner and start telling people about
    Angels. I don’t have to be a bible scholar to
    know that that is not biblical. Immediately
    Turned me away from what he was about. I don’t
    mind tat’s, got one myself and plan on getting
    more. So outward appearance isn’t a problem for
    me. Seeing people just spontaneously just get
    up and run around on the stage with a laptop and
    then fall down. Was that even semi-orderly?
    Clucking like a chicken or barking like a dog?
    How does this lift up/ edify the body of Christ?
    Are these the greater things we’ll do that Jesus
    spoke of? Intrested to see the bible quoted to
    defend this. And apparently as Todd says Jesus
    is the anointing, then another night Jesus is
    not the anointing. From what I’ve seen/heard Todd
    is a flip floppy preacher of Angels. So when
    miracles happen, you can imagine why people would
    think they are not of God. Preach Christ and the
    Cross not Angels. And pray that the miracles
    still fall.Just my 2 cents worth.

  22. June 21, 2008 9:14 am

    You need to do a more extensive search then.
    Here is one specific sight, also talking about healing angels. Do some research into kundalini.
    http://www.healingwithreikiangels.com/about.htm

  23. rahabsplace permalink*
    June 21, 2008 3:46 pm

    The relief of stress-induced pain and the healing of a dog’s toe after several days of being treated with antibiotic ointment doesn’t quality as supernatural healing in my book, I don’t care who was doing the praying or to what deity.

  24. Dennis Thompson permalink
    June 22, 2008 7:53 am

    well considering you are into Metaphysics which in itself is demonic in nature, you kinda lose credibility

  25. John permalink
    June 23, 2008 8:34 am

    Peacebringer, one look at the sight you posted,
    and I wanted to pray for all those that would
    want to even consider listening to her advice (
    or whatever she is selling). “She opens her heart without ego to the guidance of ascended masters, angels, guides, deceased loved ones and of course, God.” Speaking
    to the deceased is strictly against scripture.
    Anyway, hoping to see somone post a relevant
    repsponse to my previous post. Thankss

  26. rahabsplace permalink*
    June 23, 2008 8:48 am

    No, Dennis, I am not into metaphysics. I simply believe the Word of God to be true. I serve a supernatural God who is vitally interested in the lives of his children and who intervenes. If you do not believe in the supernatural, then you cannot be a Christian. The central tenet of the Gospel is that God became flesh and dwelt among us. Jesus Christ was raised from the dead. Those two events are about as supernatural as you can get.

    I do not subscribe to the deism that is popular among rationalistic “Christians” who deny the faith.

  27. June 23, 2008 4:56 pm

    Rahab, we believe in the superantural. However all supernatural does not come from God. Their is demonic supernatural that comes disguised as angels of light 2 Corinth 11:13-15, Mathew 24:24. God tells us to test the spritis. 1 John 4:1, 1 Thess 5:19-20,Acts 17:11. Suprantural experinces must be in line with the Word of God. Psalm 138:2. Here is John Crowder’s site, one of Todd Bentlys associate who has ministered at Lakeland. Look at the things he belives. Do you think thay are biblical?

    http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=101110908

    This is John Crowders My Space site. He is one of Todd Bentley’s associates. When you look in his site you will find much information that is demoic that he is into . He has ministered in Lakeland. Here is just a portion that I copied and pasted.

    John Crowder

    “”She loves. He is love. She is thirsty. He is a fountain…” St. Bernard of Clairvaux”

    Male
    31 years old
    Georgia
    United States

    Last Login: 6/22/2008

    Mood: ecstatic
    View My: Pics | Videos

    The below video is of one John Crowder who ministered at Lakeland and is friends with Todd Bentley. I suggest you watch the videos and read thru the materials. You can readily see that these people are operating under demonic powers that imitate God and mock God. I pray that the church would wake up and realize what is going on here.

    MySpace URL:

    http://www.myspace.com/thenewmystics

    John Crowder’s Interests
    General Divine Ecstasy, Soul Snatching, Reaching the Outcast, Third Heaven Visitation, Wonderworking, Levitation, Bilocation, Translation, Transfiguration, Exorcisms, Spontaneous Generation of Matter, Water Walking, Walking Through Walls, Glowing, Healing, Dead Raising, Stigmatism, Incombustibility, Speaking with Animals, Authority over the Elements, Super Strength, Angelic Interaction, etc.

  28. rahabsplace permalink*
    June 24, 2008 12:22 am

    Al, what did John Crowder say when you contacted him to ask him about his My Space and why he has posted what he has posted?

    That is the proper conversation you should have had before you attempted to trash his reputation. I have a pretty good idea why he has up what he has, but I would prefer to let John speak for himself.

    I edited out the links because at least one of the people you linked to has gotten so bitter that even their readers are commenting on the ungodliness of their attitude.

  29. June 24, 2008 3:26 am

    I am not trashing anybodies reputation just simply putting out what he has posted on his My Space website and putting it up against the word of God. This is New Age beliefs and dangerous to be playing around with because they are demonic.
    John Crowder’s Interests
    General Divine Ecstasy, Soul Snatching, Reaching the Outcast, Third Heaven Visitation, Wonderworking, Levitation, Bilocation, Translation, Transfiguration, Exorcisms, Spontaneous Generation of Matter, Water Walking, Walking Through Walls, Glowing, Healing, Dead Raising, Stigmatism, Incombustibility, Speaking with Animals, Authority over the Elements, Super Strength, Angelic Interaction, etc
    My question to you are these sound biblical believes? Does not Todd Bentley adhere to some of these believes?
    It seems to me that you have edited posts other people have posted and they have complained about iton your blog.

  30. June 24, 2008 3:51 am

    By the way Rahab so that others know that the links you edited had videos on it that were outright mockery of the things of God. Unholy and outright blaspheming would be two other words to describe them.
    Here are some of those videos I had posted not coming from the site you don’t approve. Why don’t you let these stand and let those that read this blog judge for themselves.

    This is just two of many that are out there. Do you believe this is Godly and Holy behavior? Do you believe that Jesus is being glorified thru these videos or cheapened? Young Christians coming into the Kingdom of God would see this and think this is acceptable when you put it up against the Word of God it is not. 1 Peter 1:16, Ephesians 5:1-15,1 Corinth 14:40,1 Timothy 3:14-15

  31. rahabsplace permalink*
    June 24, 2008 11:11 am

    One of the links you had was to a site whose author I banned from this site. They have made many, many condemning posts without every having taken the issue to the person involved. Not once.

    Scripture is clear about this. If you have something against your brother, you have not right to go anywhere with it but to them. If they refuse to repent, then you engage in progressive discipline. Rick Joyner, Mike Bickle and Jack Deere did not say anything publicly about Paul Cain until after they had dealt with him and he refused to repent. They felt they had exhausted their options. His public rebuke by them is what broke him and brought him to a place of repentance.

    I have an idea of what John Crowder is up to on his My Space, but it is for John to explain, not I. My question for you is, have you asked?

    Heather Clark made a very interesting comment on a blog recently about all the uproar over her prophetic dance at Lakeland. She said, “Thanks for all your thoughts. Not one of you ever emailed me to ask.”

    There is a great deal of assumption and an outright critical spirit being passed off as discernment, when a simple, direct question to the person involved could probably clear up a great deal of misunderstanding. But we do not give our brothers and sisters the benefit of the doubt. We make assumptions and judge them.

  32. June 24, 2008 11:36 am

    Rahab, the bible says to expose the works of darkness and not to have anything to do with them Ephesians 5:11. Most of the below experiences are demonic in nature and no born again believer should be dabbling in this stuff lest they open the door to the devil. Ephesians 4:27.
    John Crowder’s Interests
    General Divine Ecstasy, Soul Snatching, Reaching the Outcast, Third Heaven Visitation, Wonderworking, Levitation, Bilocation, Translation, Transfiguration, Exorcisms, Spontaneous Generation of Matter, Water Walking, Walking Through Walls, Glowing, Healing, Dead Raising, Stigmatism, Incombustibility, Speaking with Animals, Authority over the Elements, Super Strength, Angelic Interaction, etc.
    Do you agree with me that these are not biblical experiences?
    Also have you wacthed the videos? Do you think they are Godly and represents the Kingdom of God?
    The Bible tells us that those in the church we judge. Read 1 Corinth 5:12-14, 1 Corinth 14:29, 1 Thess5:19-20.We are to judge docrines, prophesies. We are not to accept people’s experiences supernatural or not over the Word of God. Psalm 138:2
    I realize that there are some that may be operating in hatred rather than love when trying to expose some of this and that is wrong. But has it ever occured to you that the reason some of us take time from our busy schedules to deal with this is because we see that dangers of what they are dabbling in and are trying to help people? The motive being love even though at times we have to take criticism and harsh words for our actions.

  33. Arlene Mackintosh permalink
    June 24, 2008 11:58 am

    Good job!

  34. rahabsplace permalink*
    June 24, 2008 1:30 pm

    The Bible clearly says to go to your brother if he is in error, not take your beef all over the internet before doing so. If you have not talked to John Crowder about your concerns, or at least made the effort to do so, you have no right to bring it before the body. To do so is sin.

    Now, if you have done so and could not reach agreement, by all means explain why you disagree with his statements. They are, after all, public. But until you have taken this to him, you don’t have the right to scream from the housetops about his error.

    Think about the medium his profile is on and who utilizes My Space. He just might have an agenda there in what he has posted to dialog with people who will not give you the time of day. But you will not know that for sure until you ask him. My Space is not a Christian site and does not cater to believers. He just might be fishing for the lost and those interests that you are screaming about is the bait he has out there to attract the fish.

    You, however, did not even ask or even stop to consider that that might be a possibility. Go ask John what his motives are and if he is seeing any success.

  35. John permalink
    June 24, 2008 1:46 pm

    Rahab,I agree w/ Al’s latest post. It is love for our
    fellow brothers (including Todd) and sisters, t
    hat is motive for (some of)us that are in oposi
    tion to this outpouring. I was at the Toronto Blessing
    in ’96. I have been in the Pentecostle churches.
    I am quite acquainted w/ “moves of the Holy
    Sprit”. I have had the intense moments of what
    would be called the “fire”. Laying on the floor
    screaming and making strange noises. I have
    been “slain in the Spirit”. But I have to say
    in looking more into this outpouring I have
    to say I realize now how most of that does’nt
    really line up w/ scripture. So when I ask “Seeing people just spontaneously just get
    up and run around on the stage with a laptop and
    then fall down. Was that even semi-orderly?
    Clucking like a chicken or barking like a dog?
    How does this lift up/ edify the body of Christ?
    Are these the greater things we’ll do that Jesus
    spoke of?” I am asking from the point of view of
    someone who’s been there. Do you or anyone else
    have something to back this up biblically? Don’t
    get me wrong, I believe in miracles. And that
    God is still in the healing business, but when
    the healings come from a minister who can openly
    say he was to “preach about the angel” instead
    of Jesus, I have to wonder where the healings
    come from. After all if Todd is praying for
    healing angels, then he is saying angels can
    heal right? Well then when the 1/3 of the angels
    fell w/ satan, it never says they lost their
    “power”. Not that I agree w/ his teaching, but
    there has been those that say if people are
    being healed, how can it be anything but God?(
    not an exact quote,but…). Anyway, I just hope
    that if God is in this revival, that all those getting
    saved remain so, and are’nt in it for a spiritual
    high. And if he’s not, that people’s eyes’s
    would be opened.

  36. rahabsplace permalink*
    June 24, 2008 1:59 pm

    I actually believe that when angels who bring healing fell, they became spirits of infirmity.

    I do not have problems with people disagreeing with Todd’s doctrine or whatever. My question is, have to taken it to Todd or his ministry before you took it to the internet? To me, that is basic Bible. How can you scream about Todd’s doctrine, when you fail to follow a fundamental principle of scripture.

    I believe that all the alleged false doctrine that Todd is supposedly preaching pales in comparison to the lack of love and outright hatred being shown by those who disagree with him. Believe me, unbelievers could care less about Emma, but they know hatred when they see it, and they want nothing to do with that.

  37. June 24, 2008 5:09 pm

    Rahab,
    You said I should speak to Todd about this. I posted two separate people who says they know him warned him but he would not listen.Iposted it what they said. What happened to those post? They were here a little while ago and now they are gone. That seems to happen often on here.

  38. rahabsplace permalink*
    June 24, 2008 8:30 pm

    I generally delete cut and paste posts, especially things that to me are little better than gossip.

    I asked if you had spoke to John Crowder about his my space and you posted an account of someone else’s letter from 5 years ago to Todd. You have answered my question. You have made no attempt to contact either Todd or John regarding the things you disagree with.

  39. June 25, 2008 1:45 am

    >> There has been a great deal of garbage posted all over the internet about the lying signs and wonders going on in the Florida Outpouring in Lakeland, Florida. Todd Bentley has been blasted by numerous bloggers for channeling demonic power and that is how these seemingly miraculous things are happening. According to these bloggers, satan has all kinds of power, especially in false miracles and healing. Does he? Does the Bible say that he does? Actually, the Bible does not. Healing is an activity that the Lord has reserved for Himself. https://rahabsplace.wordpress.com/2008/06/16/great-florida-outpouring-lying-signs-and-wonders/

    There has been a great deal unacceptable garbage opposing this Florida revival on the net, and for me it shows more truth about the spiritual nature of the critics, posters too… unflattering to the critic , and unchristian critics..

    Healing is the Christian children’s right, bread, inheriatnce and they do have a right to use it, practise it too.

    Some people find it strange that God can still heal today? I find it really strange that these people would try to limit God as to what God can and cannot do today, and that they personally clearly now are so far away from God too.. they really do not know God firstly.

    http://pbulow.tripod.com/healing.html
    http://anyonecare.wordpress.com/

  40. June 25, 2008 4:17 am

    Rahab,
    I guess what it boils down to is this. Just like another person posted on your blog and complained. You allow only the the post that you feel would justify this pseudo revival. If someone post something that is true and threatens the validity of any of this you immidiatly delete it. That borders on witchcraft.
    The bottom line is that those two people (whose post you deleted )who personally knew Todd Bentley warned him and questioned him on his angel doctrines and other manisfestation way back in the year 2000 and beyond and he would not listen. What makes you think he would listen to me even if I could reach him?
    I would love to sit down with Todd before and audience and ask him some point blank questions. For example to show me in the Word of God where God breaks His own rules? Psalm 89:34, Malachi 3:6, Hebrews 13:8.This is what he said when asked why he got the tattoos while in ministry before an audience in New Jersey. He said God told hHim to do it? Which God are we talking about? The one in the Bible says He does not lie. Numbers 23:19, Hewbrews 6:18 Now he is trying to say he got them before he was saved. That is a lie. All you have to do is look at some old videos when Todd used to preach and you will see that he has no visible tattoos. The videos can be found on u tube. I would ask him also about His female angel Emma to show me where that is in the Bible? If you quote to me Zechariah 5:9 I can easily prove to you they are not angels of God but wickedness.Since than the story of Emma has been modified on his website so that she is no longer a female. Many other things that he teaches and does that I would gladly ask him so that the body of Christ could judge for themselves and make up their own minds instead of being brainwashed.1 Corinth 14:29, Acts 17:11 Men and women of God are supposed too be truthful and not lie or manipulate the truth. I just pointed to two incidents where both were done. Lets see if this post also gets deleted.
    So if you can arrange an audience with Todd and I before the body of Christ than let me know and I will make it a point to be there.
    What simply has amazed me is that no matter what error we point you to in Todd Bently’s life from the Word of God you still try to justify and validate him.Sign and wonders alone does not validate a man’s ministry. Mathew 24:24,7:21-27 2 Thess 2:8-12. What validates a man’s ministry among other things is character .Mathew 7:13-12, 2 Timohty 2:15-21
    Paul did not make this statement under the unction of the Holy Spirit when he said: 1 Timohty 4:1-2 1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron,

  41. June 25, 2008 4:21 am

    Correction. Their is a type o in the last scripture I quoted. It should read Paul was under the unction of the Holy Spirit when he made the statement: 1 Timothy 4:1-21 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron,

  42. T RACDFORD permalink
    August 20, 2008 8:22 am

    if you read 2 thessalonians 9 it says that we will see false miracles and healings from the lawless one God sends the delusion on his people because they turn away from the love of the word and there fore beleive the lie ( that the lawles man is god) because people are being raised from the dead. God is alowing this,

  43. rahabsplace permalink*
    August 20, 2008 12:13 pm

    2 Thess doesn’t say that all. The man of lawlessness will display counterfeit signs, wonders and miracles. Healing is not listed. Only the Father can heal. Healing is a mark of the Kingdom of God and the evil one cannot do so. He can only remove spirits he has assigned creative healing miracles, such as the creation of an eye where there was not one is beyond his ability.

    Nor is the Bible referenced. It says because they did not love the truth. The bible is truth, but it is not the truth. The truth is Jesus Christ. Don’t make an idol out of the written word. It does not have life in it. Life is only found in Jesus Christ.

  44. Preacher permalink
    September 20, 2008 3:09 am

    I’m with John & Al, I feel that Rahab is very loyal to the ‘outpouring’ but people are being hurt & misled by this trickery.
    this is simply hysteria based on cheap tricks & leaders should show more
    discernment. sorry Rahab, you backed a loser! now forget it & get on with serving the Lord properly.

  45. rahabsplace permalink*
    September 20, 2008 12:09 pm

    Preacher,

    Fifty percent of the body of Christ is divorced. Does that make us losers?

    Charles Stanley is divorced. Does that make him a loser?

    God the Father is divorced. Does that make Him a loser?

    Todd is a prime example, just as Peter and David were, of how God uses imperfect people to do extraordinary things.

    What do you consider serving the Lord properly to be? Sitting around in social gatherings talking about what God used to do, but doesn’t do anymore? Philosophying about a book that lacks the power to change lives because people don’t believe it means what it says?

    Thank you, no. I will continue to press into Jesus to apprehend all that He apprehended me for. And I will continue to back what Jesus started through an imperfect man. The Outpouring continues. People are still coming to Lakeland. People are still being touched and transformed in Ireland and Dudley, England. The Outpouring was never about Todd. It has always been about the Father meeting with His hungry children to empower them to touch a sin-sick world.

Trackbacks

  1. Great Florida Outpouring - Todd Bentley’s Interview on Fox News! « Rahab’s Place
  2. Gentle Wisdom » Guards down, armour on
  3. Todd Bentley « Posted at wordpress.com
  4. Understanding me and others better « Missing the point?
  5. Understanding me and others better « Posted at wordpress.com

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